JesseCurry.net

Taking a look at the age group on Slashdot as opposed to DIGG should also tell you something…

yeah

DUGG DOWN FOR BORING WEBSITE! ;p

I agree, there is some work that needs to be done. Though I would not be surprised if the digg team was already planning on something like this in the near future. So far they have taken things one step at a time; maybe the next site-wide update will fix the comment system.

It is sad .
However often when services are free it attracts all of the kids as well as the rifraft in the world who have very little in an organized fashion to contribute in communication.
It is sad but this is often the case and one has to be selective with this in mind as to where you spend your time.
If it turns out that an area or a service is worth the time then it is but if not choose elsewhere .
There is no shortage of sites on the web at this point in our careers and our time in our lives.

Digg is more college kids and blog spammers while Slashdot is filled with more “real” people. At least that is my take on it.

Not to nitpick, but your site doesn’t do any of the things you criticize Digg for not having. I realize your site isn’t Digg, but I find leading by example to be a decent start if you really want to change a meme.

Another factor is the commenter’s expected and projected maturity levels.

The way digg commenting is set up at the moment, it is meant for professionals to comment about an article. You can mod up the “professional” that makes the best point/critique and by the same token mod down those that make unrelated or otherwise “bad” comments.

Reality? Though the vast majority of Diggers still comment intelligently, a few immature diggers ruin the experience of others, and to make matters worse are given TOO much power. It takes only 4 immature users to decide to mod down every single comment for the hell of it. This renders ALL comments unreadable by default (you’d have to change your preferences or on the fly how to sort diggs). Those few immature users who comment nonsensical posts are usually taken care of by the community, and dugg all the way down the page.

Basically, the system is not perfect. It has strong points, but plenty of places to improve.

–Jon Z | http://www.jzencovich.com

@Ben - so you cant criticize something w/o first leading by example??

@Ben
He also had only one idiot comment out of 7 so far. Those odds are better than digg!

I am confused, Slashdot stories are far more significant and important then Digg stories. For every one bad Slashdot article you quote, I can quote 10 bad Digg articles if not more. For example, a review of Viva Pinata and a video of a Psychic making a mistake are on the front page of Digg right now.

Don’t get me wrong I visit Digg 2 to 3 times a day and Slashdot only once. I do this simply because Digg has more entertaining articles and videos. In the end Digg is a place to quickly get a laugh or short lived entertainment where Slashdot is a place to read important articles relevant to life.

Note: please don’t respond to this with examples of Slashdot articles of stupid videos, or Digg articles of politics because in both cases we all know they exist. It is just that the majority of Slashdot articles are significant or important events where the majority of Digg articles are insignificant or entertainment oriented.

I just realized what we need. A digg IRC server with trustworthy ops where people can debate their comments in real time. If the users were authenticated against their digg usernames, it would be easy to ban them from the channel as well as punish them on digg if they were to get flame happy.

Digg had multilevel comments when the new commenting system went live, but they quickly changed to a two level system. Maybe there was a layout problem from all the indenting.

I don’t think digg necessarily has better stories than slashodot. It just has more stories that many many times are out days before slashdot posts it (mostly because of the nature of the system, which uses the community..rather than a handful of people to post stories to the front page).

@Ben

Is this the first blog you have been on?

Digg has the single most self defeating moderation system in existence.

Slashdot’s is based off giving limited points to trusted users, and using meta-moderation to check moderation. It works extremely well, and the extensive customizability allows users to view any level of filtered-ness. It was built from the ground up to reward well written and thought out comments, regardless of what the comment says.

Digg’s system, intentionally or not, strongly supports comments that agree with the masses. In particular, the system completely collapses on religious topics. From the moderation, it would seem that there are no digg users with even moderate views on religion. I particularly recall a user who posted several comments discussing his (okay, maybe her) non-atheist philosophical views (that science involves the how of the universe, and religion involves the why, something I agree with). Very well thought out comments, but all his comments where modded -20 or lower, where as on slashdot something of equal quality would have been modded up.

I do note that it seems that Digg’s comment system encourages people posted notes about the stories rather than having discussions (which may be intentional).

I also note that my liberal usage of the block button has dramatically increased the quality of digg comments for myself (liberal usage to the point where I see between 5 and 10% less comments that indicated on the front page). Rather unfortunate.

The whole precept of “digging” up or down as a way of signifying important stories, and postings, shows digg and similar sites to be the equivelent of social networking fascism, and are generally a failures. We don’t get much useful where the majority rules, it ceratinaly isn’t democratic - and more often it breaks down into a Lord of the Flies ( or FILES ) of the internet.
I don’t believe we can have meaningful anonymous use of the these types of sites and forums. There is no risk in digging and posting trash, and hence not many take responsibility. Anonymous forums will need responsible moderators to guide the converstations.

@Ben

thanks for the comment, it actually caused me to look into a threaded commenting system, once my digg traffic stops I’m going to work on adding it.

Hopefully the bandwidth bill isn’t too bad this month

“Why is Digg Filled With So Many Assholes?”

I guarantee that Slashdot has just as many assholes as Digg, the thing is its harder to spot them because of their improved moderation system. I agree Digg needs some help, but you seem to be bashing Digg here and praising Slashdot, not really trying to give constructive advice.

Personally I find slashdots modertaion to be strict which is fine, but reading through their threads is a mess. Total utter mess.

YOUR MOM IS FILLED WITH ASSHOLES.

fake

Not sure either, Jesse, but I suspect it has something to do with the design of digg’s commenting system.

About two months before digg launched their new version of comments, reddit.com turned on their comments for the first time. The model is very similar to the one digg later released, except for a variety of sort options that reddit included. The result is a much more fluid experience where “hot” threads of comments actually rise and fall, allowing you to keep up with interesting conversations (while the trolls get pummeled down).

There is something to be said for the more mature (did I just say that?) communities at Slashdot and reddit… can’t put my finger on it, though…

Ah well, just my $.02

Don’t try to comment even the slightest conservative bias.. YOU WILL BE DUG DOWN.

Ironically, this website doesn’t supply said capabilities either ;D

Its easy using statistics to figure out who is abusing the system; they can then have their diggs not count. For cabals to abuse they have to digg each other up, that’s easy to see. So is inordinate amounts of digg/burying.

What is becoming more prevalent in my observation (and now in my own practice) is liberal use of the “block user” button. Known trolls like i440 simply no longer appear in the article comments. Of course, this would cause havoc with multi-level commenting which is why I think that feature isn’t enabled. If you really like having the reply button there, there’s a greasemonkey script that adds it to every comment.

@Hoshansi
Yeah, I have noticed that the typical Digg-er is very liberal, oppinionated, irrational, middle school-aged, and incapable of giving a proper response to just about anything…which puts me in the minority…
Maybe that’s the problem.
*sigh*

Hey Jesse, could your next digg article be on how messed up the login process is? Why is it that when you log in, digg takes you to the last page you opened, rather than the page you just logged in to? Try it some time…open up a few comment pages in other tabs, then log into one of the first ones you’ve opened…voila! You’re on another page!

[…] playboy wonder woman Article states what could be the reason that Digg commenting rarely results in a useful conversation, while Slashdot still maintains some level of conversation on stories. naked pics of wonder womanread more | digg story […]

Heh. No, you don’t have to be conservative to get knocked down in the Digg comment system. I’m quite the opposite, and I get dugg down all the damn time when trying to offer a non-trolling opinion on an article. I think the fundamental issue is trying to offer constructive thoughts versus just firing off an OMGLOL. There’s a vocal arena of folks on there who just don’t care, and their noise is drowning out the signal of the folks who do. I still read the articles, but I think I’ve decided that as of tonight, I don’t write comments at Digg anymore.

The issue is not just a Digg one but a net-wide one, I think; but I believe Digg’s mechanisms make it stand out much more, like a punch in the face that’s been filmed, put on youtube, and dugg.

Well said lardlung

Good points made - not sure about the reputation system because this could cause censoring of users who have real and valid points. But I agree with the commenting system - digg is trying to fight spam so they only let one reply thread - plus it means more db space.

I think that there should be a 3rd rating for comments that denotes them as unprovoked flaming or trolling and if a person recieves enough of these ratings their commenting privileges should be revoked for a period of time.

Digg sems to have devolved back to what AOL was in 1999-2001- “Gee, look at the cool pictures I found on the web- think I’ll send them to everyone in my address book.” And the comments are just immature-for the most part. I have decided to ignore the comments altogether and, like lardlung, just read the articles.

I wonder if some social adjustment would help, too. I stopped participating in Digg because people routinely (really most often) answer other people in a manner that would cause them to get punched in the face if they were to do it in person. And often these people are not terribly insightful themselves.

Maybe some sort of karma system would help here where we could penalize people, whether we agree with their position or not, for saying things like “maybe you need to learn math” and similar obnoxious phrasing.

I think better threading of discussions would help a lot… That’s the only big thing I see needing to change.

It never ceases to amaze me how some people have nothing better to do than flame and add non usefull comments.
Do they not realize that they are wasting other people’s time.
Well at least they are not on drinking and driving.
Time to get a job.
Maybe gainfull employment will do them some good.

This sure as hell beats having to watch CNN or FOX though.

[…] rogue X Men Article states what could be the reason that Digg commenting rarely results in a useful conversation, while Slashdot still maintains some level of conversation on stories. X Men fanartread more | digg story […]

this article blows a donkeys dik,

i agree that the digg mod and comment systems really aren’t effective for conversations. They allow that whole ‘tyranny of the majority’ thing to happen, by leting you see how many votes something has and so bias your opinion with popular influence. Allowing one reply only ensures disorganized chaos, while being modded down carries no stigma, systemically or socially - it seems to have no effect on your account, and the article will be gone from the page in a matter of maybe a couple of hours, burying your inanity forever. It seems that space is more for story corrections and updates than discussion of any depth.

I’m almost inclined (but awfully lazy) to start a “diggforum” type of site, with a real moderated discussion forum for digg stories.

Thanks Jesse,
This is something I had to consider myself when developing the voting and commenting system for a site I founded that is also about user-generated but with a local news focus.
I opted for a simple voting system - on stories as well as comments. That way popular comments would be rewarded by appearing first. Replies to that comment follow.
Anyone can add to any comments by hitting a ‘reply to this comment’ button.
It’s not perfect, but I think it’s working. And yes we don’t have the large number of comments that other sites do, and that might be the real test.
It’s interesting reading everyone’s comments, when you have had the challenge of building a system.

Threading and e-mail notification will definitely help. At the same time, the threading/thresholding system at /. is really confusing at first and I’m sure is what drives away a lot of noobs who go there. I know this because I was driven away when I first went there, and never really got hooked to /. On the other hand, digg commenting is really straightforward. So for threading, I’d propose a toggle switch.

There would definitely need to be a strong development effort. I’m not trying to say that Slashdot is perfect by any means, but it has a few features that put it ahead of Digg(while Digg has plenty that put it above /.).
I suppose that there would have to be a visually appealing threaded comment structure. On /. I like the nested option best, but after a few levels it all starts to look the same. I’m sure that there is some type of “killer UI” that is left to be invented, I’ll think on it some more and try to come up with a good conception of what that might be.

[…] After my post “Why is Digg Filled with So Many Assholes?” spent some time on the Digg front page I got a ton of traffic, which is to be expected. What I didn’t expect was that I would be referenced on Wikipedia, oh the power of the web. On Wikipedia’s entry for “Digg.com” the statement “It has been suggested that any bias that does exist is due to a fundamentally flawed design in Diggs comment moderation system” is attributed to my site, that has to be one of the coolest digg after effects yet. Apparently what I was saying took root with at least one person, I’m glad that my thoughts got out there and I hope that they cause a positive change in the digg community. Thanks again to everyone who commented on my article, especially the intelligent criticisms. […]

[…] With all of the recent problems that Digg is having they are destined for doom. Yea yea you could say that it is just growing pains or some other BS but everyone has got to see that Digg has become a monster that I doubt Kevin or Jay had envisioned. […]

[…] Jesse Curry muses on why Digg is filled with ***holes. I’m definitely inclined to agree that the simplicity of the Digg/Bury mechanism only allows the lowest common denominator to rise to the top. I find Slashdot’s moderation/ranking system intimidating, but it also has a much better signal-to-noise ratio. At the same time, I feel like Slashdot attracts a more mature crowd in general, so I have no clue whether Digg’s problems stem from the system or from the users themselves. […]

I’ve just been staying at home not getting anything done. I’ve basically been doing nothing worth mentioning. My life’s been pretty unremarkable these days. Eh.

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